Alpine Opinion

What community representation?

Posted in Alpine Shire Council, Bright Australia, Coles debate by Ray Dixon on 7 August, 2008

               

“Ray, these groups (Save Bright, the BCA and the Chamber Committee) are the only groups in town that people are able to have a voice through. You dengirate them as if they are inconsequential. They are not. And the effort you make to belittle them proves that. Keep it up BCA, Save Bright and Chamber. Bright is well worth fighting for!!!”

Then why don’t they have inter-active websites, Roy?

The above comment was made here late last night by “Roy Hardy” (an alias, I presume) under the previous post Time to move on … or out! Roy is possibly a member of one of the above groups and is clearly annoyed that I would have the temerity to question and query the groups’ methods, motives and lack of public debate and openness. 

Notably though, ”Roy” had no comment to make on the more central - and only - issues those groups (who are clearly inter-connected) have recently raised, being the proposed planning overlays for Bright and the controversial Cittaslow proposal, the very things I’m writing about. I’ve already responded to “Roy” under the same post but I think it’s worth looking at the 3 groups and why they SHOULD be queried and questioned:

Bright Chamber of Commerce committee:

Look at the recent debacle. Their President, Wayne Phillips, was forced to step down following his extremely negative & damaging comments about Bright reported in the Herald-Sun. The remaining committee members went ‘to ground’ and refused to comment, even to the Border Mail and the Bright Observer. Brad Worrall (the BM journalist) told me that he pleaded with them to make some kind of comment to ‘clear the air’ but they refused.

After a few weeks they released a press statement that totally ignored the crisis in confidence created by Phillips and, instead, spoke about ‘Cittaslow’ and how they want the community to get behind that idea – without explaining why, or how it would benefit Bright’s economy. They’ve placed two ads in the paper inviting the public to a so-called Cittaslow discussion night out at a Porepunkah winery later this month - at a cost of $30 each!

A committe member has recently started up a ‘community information’ website, in which the Cittaslow proposal is given a mighty big amount of space – all propaganda. The website topics though are “not for discussion” and the comments section is switched off.

But, Cittaslow is a European-based politically motivated anti-development & anti-commercial socialist movement. It is very anti-progress. Yet the Chamber is advocating Bright becomes an official Cittaslow ’slow town’ – i.e. one that rejects normal commercialism and ‘drops out’ of the mainstream.

I don’t think that’s good representation or advocacy for Bright, which is a 100% normal commercial tourist town.

Save Bright:

Well, need I explain? Wayne Phillips is the principal officer and ‘economic spokesperson’ for this anti-development, anti-commercial group that started up in January of last year. A position that totally conflicted with his role as Chamber President. They held up the most important development ever proposed for Bright for over 12 months with a sheer propaganda campaign. They would not enter into open debate of the issues. They have very few members & supporters. VCAT dismissed ALL of their objections out of hand, yet they have still refused to acknowledge that they just might have been wrong and, instead, have merely placed a few ’sour grapes’ letters in the papers, blaming the council and lack of community support.

That says it all about Save Bright, who should just go away.

Bright Citizens Association: 

This little known group is almost a closed shop. Or I should say, it is only open to those who share their “let’s keep Bright as it is” mission. They now claim to hold public quarterly meetings, although a letter explaining that was published AFTER the only such meeting they have held. There is no phone listing for this group, nor does it have a website. In this day & age it is astounding that a so-called “citizens group” that purports to represent the community would not have an interactive website where issues could be discussed and opinions aired.

The group has met privately and, last year, a small number of them approached (privately) the Alpine council in an attempt to have planning restrictions (overlays) incorporated into the Bright Future Project document and for that to then be drafted into the planning scheme. They still want that, yet they have NOT consulted the wider community about these proposals.

Then recently, the BCA together with the Chamber of Commerce committee and some Save Bright people, again went behind the community’s back and gave the Alpine council the false impression that there was “considerable community interest in Bright becoming an official Cittaslow – a “slow-town”.

Now the secretary has written to the local paper urging the community to “start lobbying” for these changes, without explaining what they are. The letter also referred to the upcoming council elections and inferred that we should elect councillors who agree with their narrow views, to get their ideas adopted no doubt.

Summary:

The 3 groups clearly have one thing, at least, in common. They are all opposed to development & growth. And, as I said above, in a town like Bright that means they are anti-progress. I believe their ideas are potentially disastrous for the economic sustainability of Bright. Anyway, Roy can claim I’m ”denigrating” the 3 groups if he likes, but I am merely doing two things here:

1. I’m presenting the counter-arguments.

2. I’m trying to get these groups, who consist of a mere few dozen people at most, to openly debate their  rather radical proposals that they want to impose on the entire town. 

It’s an uphill battle but I won’t be silenced by the likes of “Roy”. (I wonder if he writes ‘hate mail’ too?)

Maybe the chamber committee members should dissolve the chamber? Let’s face it, most businesses have dropped out in light of the chamber’s anti-development, anti-progress views.

Those chamber members advocating Cittaslow could then join their ‘mates’ at Save Bright and the BCA and form a new group. They’d need an appropriate name though, something like this:

Bright Citizens Against Development Society 

… i.e. the Bright CADS. At least that name might more accurately describe their position and attitudes.

58 Responses

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  1. Andrew Davis said, on 7 August, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    Geez, I hope the Council have their insurances up to date as these groups surely do trip over their tongues, oops sorry, cracks in the foot paths and then blame someone else………….

  2. LuLi said, on 7 August, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    One of the most crucial ingredients to a democratic society is the freedom of speech. It is absolutely integral for everyone to be allowed the right of reply and to voice their opinions not just the ‘most important’ members. I have little faith in any organisation which would not allow the basic rights of individuals, or silences them, or lashes out at those who choose to speak via other avenues. They should at the very least, allow comments and free meetings (not however much dollar wine tasting whatever days). Otherwise, they are in no way a representation of the wider community, as the wider community aren’t even allowed a voice within them.

  3. raydixon said, on 7 August, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    I think the collective name of The Bright Cads is a good one, don’t you Andrew?

    A bit harsh (and “denigrating” as Roy would put it) but … honest.

  4. raydixon said, on 7 August, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    It’s all part of the joys of living in a small town, LuLi. Cheers.

  5. WTF! said, on 7 August, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    The more they say, the less they say. I feel like a stuck record too. All I can say about them is WTF are they trying to do? And WhyTF can’t they come out in the open and discuss it?

    Putting comments like Roy’s up here takes about the same time it would to put up something about the Cittaslow and other things they are pushing. They just want you to shut up. That suggests they don’t even have the strength of their own convictions. Otherwise why not just debate the issues that THEY have raised?

    So, as LuLi points out, how can anyone take them seriously? And why has the council taken them seriously? Are they part of the same problem here?

  6. Andrew Davis said, on 7 August, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Ray,

    You wanting to form a group? Seriously?

  7. raydixon said, on 7 August, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Seriously, yes. I’ve even got a name for it … and a charter.

    Name: Bright Tourism Association

    Charter: Simply to act as a discussion group for tourism operators concerned with the lack of representation and promotion of Bright.
    To then lobby the relevant authorities such as (from the bottom up) ARTB, the Alpine Council, Tourism Victoria and the State Government for these things:
    (a)More promotion & recognition of Bright as a stand-alone tourist destination.
    (b) More Govt funding for tourism related infrastructure in Bright, such as a few million $s to get the town done up as per the Bright Future Project.

    Keeping it simple & straight forward would be the way to go. Wouldn’t take many people or cost a lot to set up. It’s about real advocacy. You in?

  8. raydixon said, on 7 August, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    Although were you perhaps referring to the council elections, Andrew? The two ideas are compatible.

  9. Andrew Davis said, on 7 August, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    I was referring to Bright CADS.

    I’m in. Who else is in?

  10. raydixon said, on 7 August, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    Well, there are one or two I can think of who would be interested. As I said, it doesn’t need many people (initially) to start it off … informally.

    Perhaps the way to find out if there’s enough interest is if I do a post on the idea and invite interested operators to send me an email. If enough people respond then step 2 would be an informal meeting to discuss strategy for raising awareness.

    Step 3 would be calling a public meeting (a real public meeting as opposed to the ones the chamber & others have) in which those attending decide whether to formalise the group. That would need to be advertised in the paper. Maybe they’d give a write up on it too? We can ask.

    Step 4 is formalisation, election of office bearers, charter etc.

    Step 5 and beyond are ongoing monthly meetings and carrying out the charter as described.

    Simple, really.

  11. Frank said, on 7 August, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Ray, you should form a Bright ticket for the next council elections with yourself, Andrew & John. With Andrew and John’s extensive knowledge of real estate, planning, development and tourism complimenting your skills with all things economic and social, you guys can’t lose.

    Go For It !

  12. raydixon said, on 7 August, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    It might need more than that. How about … Frank?

  13. Frank said, on 7 August, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Three is plenty Ray, To many standing will only dilute the Bright ticket and we don’t want to see Bright left out in the cold, again.

  14. raydixon said, on 7 August, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Well no, but even for one person to get elected it takes preferences from others.

  15. Andrew Davis said, on 8 August, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Frank,

    Thanks for the thought. Running for Council does not interest me. Forming Bright CADS does.

    At least then, the community will be INFORMED, not misrepresented and told lies.

  16. Rory L said, on 8 August, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Thank you for confirming Frank that the main antagonists here apart from Ray are all real estate agents. No wonder this site is a pro rampant development platform.

  17. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Gee Rory, nice comment. Thanks.

  18. Rory L said, on 8 August, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    Well you keep talking about openess and your main contributors are those with a vested interest in development.

    Andrew …… has been involved with the coles developers from early in the piece so it is highly unethical that you allow him to comment if you truly are interested in fairness.

  19. Rory L said, on 8 August, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Also… your website is hardly interactive as you moderate any new comments with the exception of your clueless blog mates so it’s a bit rich for you to say that you want open and honest debate while you do this.

    The reality is you have no support. If you believe you have then run for council on your real estate ticket and may the best man win.

  20. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Rory, for your information:

    1. This website is certainly open and anyone is entitled to comment here and no one is banned. What’s “unethical” about allowing Andrew Davis to comment? Anti-development people comment here too but if they are a minority perhaps that tells you that most people are not anti-development.

    2. And this website is most certainly 100% interactive. The wordpress system puts ALL new comments (ie first-timers or someone using a new name) into moderation, not me.

    3. Unless the comments are libellous or overly abusive I always let them through.

    4. I also have to protect people’s privacy and that’s why I had to edit out the person’s name you referred to above. I’m not sure whether you were right or not about the person’s identity but it’s a breach of privacy and/or libellous to say what you did.

    You’ve now made 3 comments without touching on the issues raised, the real issues of Cittaslow, development, planning controls etc. Have you got anything to say about that?

  21. Rory L said, on 8 August, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Editing out the names won’t change the fact that this site is used as a public platform for those with a vested interest in developments.

    I know who was involved at the first Coles meeting because i was there when prospective developers were sought. Andrew “Davis” needs to come clean as to his involvement.

  22. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    No he doesn’t. Anyone is entitled to comment here using an alias – like you do. What’s your involvement? No need to answer.

    I can only repeat to you that there is no “platform” here. Your comments are appearing aren’t they? Mind you, if all you’ve got to add is more of the same I don’t see much point in it.

  23. Rory L said, on 8 August, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    I’m not entirely familiar with the Cittaslow arrangement so i don’t wish to comment other than to say i think the over arching principles are sound and worth looking into, not rejecting them outright as you seem to have done.

    On development and planning controls i do have an opinion. I am a developer and i have never seen a more vindictive bunch of people hiding behind aliases in order to get what they want.

    To be a good developer the opinion of the community is paramount. Developers that don’t listen to community concerns are developers that will ultimately fail through lack of support. They need to understand the market, which is why i also believe Wesfarmers need to consider their position before locking themselves in with an unpopular development.

  24. Ruth K said, on 8 August, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Well Mr Dixon it seems as though Rory has hit a nerve with you.

    He’s right I’m afraid, you are using this medium as a platform to promote rampant development in this beautiful town, Andrew …… has been up to his neck in supporting inappropriate developments in town – and it all comes down to him making a profit.

    Run for Council if you like. I think you’ll find that there are a vast majority of residents in Bright who oppose the kind of ill thought out, slap-dash development which you consistently push for. Which is why you and Andrew would lose.

  25. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    I haven’t pushed for anything Ruth, Rory. I’ve supported the Coles development as an important renewal project that, all things considered, will benefit the town.

    Councils can only deal with the appliations as they arise and I think in this case the Alpine council did a very good job. VCAT agreed with them.

    Again, I’m just commenting on the issues of the day. The difference here is I am articulating my views on those issues whereas you both seem more personally focused on individuals.

  26. WTF! said, on 8 August, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    ” i have never seen a more vindictive bunch of people hiding behind aliases in order to get what they want. ”

    Me either. Fortunately though, Save Bright lost.

  27. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    I was going to point out the irony in Rory’s statement too. And the hypocrisy.

  28. Rory L said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    I think in fact the opposite is true Ray. Supporting development is one thing but to run an articulated smear campaign to belittle opposition is another.

    I am familiar with both the process and those involved in this particular case. You are far from squeaky clean. Neither are your real estate counterparts in Andrew or those working for the alpine shire who also comment under alias here.

  29. WTF! said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    And what about his Cittaslow statement? He wants to “look into it” but he won’t discuss it in public.

  30. Ruth K said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Dear WTF,

    The Save Bright people have been openly contactable all along.

    You obviously believe Mr Dixon’s propaganda (or you are another alias of Mr Dixon).

    Probably the latter.

    I dearly hope one of the Save Bright or BCA people runs for Council. It’s about time Bright’s true interests were represented. And these guys have their finger on the pulse.

  31. Dave from Albury said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Rory, can you please tell me which of the “over arching principles are sound and worth looking into” in your opinion?

  32. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    Well Rory, you’re making an untrue accusation about me there.

    I’m not “squeaky clean”? What does that mean? Oh, I get it … I’m “in with the developers”, is that right?

    Rory, or whatever your real name is, you’ve been here before and made the same baseless accusations.

    Now, if you are not prepared to discuss the real issues, please leave.

  33. WTF! said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Ruth, why do I have to contact you or Save Bright or whoever to find out more about your Cittaslow proposal? Why can’t you (or whoever) explain it? You’re the ones pushing it.

  34. Rory L said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    Actually WTF, i said i think it is well worth looking into which i’m sure would involve discussion. Just not with people like yourself who have clearly made your mind up already.

  35. Vic said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    Ruth, good to see you are back….now – without accusing me of being Ray (I assure you I am not) – I would really love to hear from you why the Bright Chamber of Commerce, Save Bright and the Bright Citizens Assoc are all pushing Chittislow. What is the real story there…I just really want a clear answer from someone who is involved in it. The reason why I would like to here some clarity is because I cannot understand why a town like Bright would have to pay an organization in Italy fees under the banner of a style of living. Also, why is there no discussion forum on the websites of those that are supporting it? Please Ruth, I’m being as friendly as I can here, and would like some feedback on what I am asking.

  36. WTF! said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    I think you’re just saying anything to avoid discussing it Rory.

  37. Ruth K said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Mr Dixon, the real issue under this post is centred on “Community representation”.

    Seeing as though you sound like you’ll be running for Council on a pro-development ticket with local real estate agents (and ex-agents), and therefore potentially be a “community representative”, I’d say that questioning the integrity of this forum is a very relevant discussion issue from Rory.

    If you are thinking about becoming a representative for Bright, your recent actions and integrity will come under very close scrutiny. Rory may be right in assuming you have a vested interest in seeing Bright become over developed. You wouldn’t be the first!

  38. Rory L said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    I think first you should divulge your real estate connection “Vic”

  39. Ruth K said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    And Vic – I’m not a member of those groups, but I like the Cittslow idea.

    And by the way, I still think you are Mr Dixon.

  40. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    Ruth & Rory, please stop querying the identity of the people commenting here. And please stop avoiding the questions. I note there’s no response to Dave from Albury. Why not?

    And Ruth, no you may not question my integrity or the integrity of this site. Not if you wish to comment here. I’ve already answered your baseless accusations. So drop them please.

  41. Dave from Albury said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    Rory, you have mentioned that you like the Cittaslow idea, can you please tell me which of the “over arching principles are sound and worth looking into” in your opinion?

  42. Vic said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Hi Rory, no real estate connection here – that would mean I am rolling in it – which I’m not. Just would like to know why the Bright Chamber of Commerce, Save Bright and the Bright Citizens Assoc are all pushing Chittislow. I have to admit that none of this would have tweaked my curiosity and attention until I came across this blog…and yes – to be honest – reading here has made me slightly skeptical over the benefits of Chittislow. That is why I would really love it if one of you actually gave some feedback in what i am asking. Why are these organisations pushing it – and in reality why should a town in country Victoria like Bright pay fees to an organization in Italy for what seems like a franchise name. We all appreciate good living, and I practice it myself…but why should I as a rate payer be funding an organization in Italy…it does not make sense (but that is just my opinion – and that is why I need much more information from those that are supporting it).

  43. Vic said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Ruth, please….I’m not Ray or Mr Dixon. Can you please answer my questions – I’m being as friendly as possible here, and surely do not wan’t to inflame…just want feedback – why the Bright Chamber of Commerce, Save Bright and the Bright Citizens Assoc are all pushing Chittislow…why should I as a rate payer be funding an organization in Italy…and why is there no discussion forum on the websites of those that are supporting it?

  44. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:54 pm

    The silence is deafening Vic, Dave, WTF. The purpose of the ‘mission’ was only to discredit, not explain, and now that they’re faced with answering or going mute they choose the latter, as usual. Same pattern as during the Coles debate. Same people, no doubt.

  45. Vic said, on 8 August, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    Hi Ruth, you said…
    “And Vic – I’m not a member of those groups, but I like the Cittslow idea.”

    Ok – fair enough…then maybe you can’t answer some of my questions. I have researched as much as I can about “the Cittslow idea.” and for me things do not add up. My curiosity is hitting a peak at why any town in Australia – let alone Victoria would pay fees to an organization in Italy for a franchise name. Really – this needs to be really looked into for any body to make a decision on whether they support it or not.

    There are principles that any town can adopt – but why on earth would they pay an organisation in Italy to adopt them…I just don’t get this part of it…And when I really analyze all the Chittislow info out there – it is all very basic stuff – so, i still have to ask, why on earth would you as a rate payer be funding an organisation in Italy for they way you live here.

    Come on – this is Australia – and I’m sure we have got a bit more nouse in us to organize ourselves without paying some organization overseas for the luxury…or am i going off track here? What do you think Ruth, Rory….friendly conversation here – what are your thoughts?

  46. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    I doubt you’ll get a satisfactory response from Ruth or Rory on that, Vic. Your point about Cittaslow being a franchise is an interesting one though. Ironically they are opposed to franchises, unless it’s theirs!

    The thing about Cittaslow is, it’s about a town (via its council) adopting a set of rules & principles that the council undertakes to abide by. The principles contained in the Cittaslow charter are vague and the rules (60 of them) are a bit of a secret. Nowhere on the internet will you find them but they clearly relate to decisions that a council makes including planning matters.

    Sign on for Cittaslow then and a council may find itself at VCAT facing challenges on its decision on the grounds that the development does not comply with Cittaslow rules.

    And who’s to say what VCAT would make of that? It IS a fact that under section 60 of the planning act a council must consider its adopted policies when making decisions on planning applications. And signing up to Cittaslow would fall into that category.

    VCAT haven’t had to face that situation yet because so far no town in Victoria has joined up to Cittaslow. And the two in SA & NSW are still fairly new.

    My thoughts are … why should we be the guinea pigs for something that seems like an attempt to hijack council processes via the back door?

  47. Vic said, on 8 August, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    “The thing about Cittaslow is, it’s about a town (via its council) adopting a set of rules & principles that the council undertakes to abide by.”

    Now that is a scary thought… and on top of that you have to pay an organization in Italy? Seriously – every one needs to know a lot more.

  48. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Vic, it’s a subversive movement to oppose globalisation from the grass roots up, which sprung from the heads of a couple of young far-left wing radicals in Italy who saw that they could use the slow-food movement as a front for spreading their ideals.

    Like all underground movements they never fully explain and they use propaganda to spread their message to soft-headed people in smaller towns.

    They particularly target middle class retirees who see it as a nice, peaceful way of having something to do.

  49. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    PS: That’s why the Americans won’t have anything to do with it!

  50. Vic said, on 8 August, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Hi Ray, I’ll keep an open objective mind on whether Chittislow is “a subversive movement to oppose globalisation from the grass roots up”. I suppose you’ll be attacked for that one as it would be hard to prove in the minds of those sold on it.

    Thanks for the detailed info anyway, and I am curious as to why supporters don’t come straight out and say that “Cittaslow is, it’s about a town (via its council) adopting a set of rules & principles that the council undertakes to abide by…”. Now that one point is something that should wake up people to further investigate. What rules & what principles are worth paying an organization in Italy to adopt?

    Sorry, but I can’t get my head around paying the Chittaslow Franchise fees – really…look at at, your paying a vague organization in another country money for thin air – Maybe we should start something here and market it out to the world so towns can pay us the privelidge of a franchised name under the guise of some very basic, vague rules and principles that are self assessed!

    Any ideas…”Brightaslow”? We’ll all be rich!!

  51. raydixon said, on 8 August, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    I’m not worried about defending that Vic. The ones pushing for Cittaslow for Bright are NEVER going to enter into a debate about it anyway.

    They’ll just have their little private meetings, write a few letters to the paper and then go back to the council and say, “We’ve received widespread community support for the Cittaslow concept and we’d like the council to make an official application.”

    I kid you not, that is exactly what they intend to do.

  52. Dave from Albury said, on 8 August, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    Guys, if you are genuinely interested in dealing with these astroturfing organisations then you need to do your homework on them. Incorporated organisations like Save Bright etc, have statutory reporting obligations that you can use to obtain an enormous amount of info. It’s time to use the laws that these groups hide behind against them.

  53. Vic said, on 8 August, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    Good point Dave…I’m not up on that sort of thing, but it does sound like it is ripe time to make these three organisations openly accountable to Bright and district residents…by force of law if necessary.

  54. raydixon said, on 9 August, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Dave, as far as I know all you can get from Consumer Affairs (which is where they’d be registered) is the standard stuff like date of incorporation, a reg’d address and the name of the principal officer.

  55. Andrew Davis said, on 11 August, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Rory L – I am not part of the Coles Development or an estate agent or own any property in Bright apart from my Home. Not sure where you got all those ideas from.

    BTW – I am not Ray either. You would have seen that by now from my comments on other posts.

    I am just a resident of Bright, like many, that would like Bright to develop for the future and attract more people to our wonderful area. When “ideas” are being raised by community groups – these “ideas” need to be discussed with the wider community.

    I have expressed this view all along. The “Community Meeting” to be held tomorrow night is what should have happended weeks ago. Inform the community of these “ideas” and let the community vote.

  56. raydixon said, on 11 August, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    Well, the community doesn’t get to “vote” on specific issues, Andrew, and nor should it. You can’t have council decisions made by a “show of hands” at a public meeting, especially at one that’s likely to be loaded with a particular interest group – the anti-progress ‘cittaslowers’ for example.

    The point of the meeting is for the council to get feedback & input, and then (using common sense) to sort out what’s relevant and what’s not.

    We DO get a vote though – in November.

  57. Andrew Davis said, on 11 August, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Ray,

    I’m not saying we vote on issues…………..by way of showing hands.

    I am saying that WE should be better informed by these groups, SB, BCA etc before Shires do make a decision. Call a meeting so we can be informed on these ideas and why they benefit us and allow us to comment/ask questions in front of the community.

  58. raydixon said, on 11 August, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Tomorrow night’s meeting is about a broad range of issues, not Cittaslow as far I know. The councl arranged this meeting well before the Cittaslow matter came along. I think we just go along and see what eventuates. So far there has been no attempt by the ‘pro-Cittaslowers’ to explain, discuss or debate the concept so I wonder if they’ll dare to do so tomorrow night?

    Perhaps we should comment about the community forum under the the other post though.


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