A fools’ pool?
Council to borrow ‘not quite’ $1 million to purchase and improve a white elephant that very few people use
“If Council wishes to proceed with buying the centre, it will require a loan to pay for it …. The aim is that the income from the centre will service the loan repayments”~ Alpine CEO, Ian Nicholls
A report recommending that the Alpine Shire Council purchases, improves and operates the bankrupt and near defunct Bright Sports Centre will be put to councillors at this Tuesday’s council meeting to be held in Mt Beauty.
According to this press release, CEO Ian Nicholls says, “Council had been working behind the scenes on a number of options which would ensure Bright had an aquatic facility – and purchasing the centre was just one of the options.”
However, I understand that the purchase proposal is the only one being seriously considered. I spoke with Ian Nicholls on Friday but, as negotiations are yet to be finalised, he would not disclose the ‘all-up’ proposed cost & borrowings, although he did say it would be “well below $1 million”.
I’m not 100% sure where I stand on this. I realise that in order to ensure an aquatic facility is available in Bright this looks like the only way forward but the question is … should we have one?
The indoor pool is used by very few people and the very reason that the Federal & State Governments will not supply any funds for this purchase OR the construction of a new one, is they do not consider the proposition to be a viable one, especially in a small town like Bright.
There’s no doubt that this acquisition will be a burden on all ratepayers, not just in the initial purchase & improvement phase, but also in the ongoing operation.
It needs to be understood that no council-owned pool in the State runs at a profit. They all lose money, and some of them cost ratepayers hundreds of thousands of $s every year to support.
Don’t we have bigger priorities that we should be borrowing money for? What about ones that would actually provide a boost to our economy, like the improvements under the Bright Future Project that are designed to enhance our tourist appeal?
For about the same money this pool project would cost, we could have the CBD of Bright substantially upgraded, and there would be no recurrent & ongoing cost. In fact, in my opinion, those works would most likely boost our economy quite dramatically.
Is this pool an indulgence we can’t afford? I think it is. What are your thoughts?
Contact: ray@grevilleagardens.com
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You really interested in my thoughts Ray? Gee that’s sweet of you, I’m chuffed.
Okay, there’s a couple of things you need to get straight on this issue;
a) Your statement that the “pool is used by very few people” is incorrect. Perhaps you are thinking of adults. In fact, a large number of children are taken to the pool by their parents to learn how to swim. If Bright did not have a pool, the only options for swim classes in summer are Mt Beauty and Myrtleford. Outside of summer, the only option is to travel to Wangaratta. With the cost of fuel combined with the current economic downturn, these options are expensive and many families would find themselves in a position where they may not be able to provide vital swimming classes to their children if there was no pool in Bright. At least Council clearly sees the necessity behind keeping this service available.
b) I’d venture further and say that “no council-owned pool in the COUNTRY runs at a profit”. They’re not supposed to profit from them, see. Similar to other public funded service industries such as health care and transport. It’s what our taxes and rates are for. I understand that you may not wish to use the facilities yourself, but perhaps you should consider the wider community. Until you acknowledge that there’s a very significant proportion of Bright’s community that needs and wants to use the facilities provided by the sports/aquaitc centre, I’m afraid you’ll continue to be baffled by Councils efforts to provide recreational services for Bright.
So to answer the question “do we need the pool?” – yes, clearly, we do.
I hope the CEO’s business plan consists of more than, “The aim is that the income from the centre will service the loan repayments”.
Presumably any major capital investment made by council, and funded by debt is open to public scrutiny and includes realistic projections about capacity to repay debt without imposing additional burden on ratepayers.
I assume the proposal includes more than just the pool – for 1 million bucks I’d expect more than a run-down, indoor pool!
However, I don’t see the proposal as a total indulgence. A public pool where children can learn to swim, year round, is not indulgent but an absolute necessity and the communities’ social responsiblity.
But weight lifting equipment for the Alpha male minority to ‘pump up’ whilst looking at themselves in a mirror would be a total waste of resources in my mind… if that’s also part of the proposal.
I wonder if the council are more interested in ticking boxes on their ‘Things to do in Bright…’ checklist, rather than considering projects of real significance/value.
OK Wal, I’ll allow that comment up but here’s a future stipulation if you want to join the debate on this: Don’t conduct this in an adversarial manner. I am entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, so direct your comments at the issue (which is an important one) and don’t try to make it a personal attack on me, especially when you choose to use an alias. Got it? About time you did.
As for your comment, I understand all that but you’re talking in vague terms. What are the numbers, precisely? I think you’ll find the users are no more than about 200, if that.
The problem is that Bright is just too small to sustain this and that’s why no Government funding is available.
Ironically, if the council focused more on infrastructure that would improve Bright’s economy (like Bright Future) then a private investor may be encouraged to purchase the pool and revamp it to include such features as a day spa that might appeal to tourists and that might then see it a viable operation.
But there is not enough encouragement for the private sector to invest here, and that’s why we see very few major developments (save Woolies) going ahead.
You see Wal, private developments actually benefit the community and the best way council can assist this small community to achieve the facilities it needs/wants is to help it grow economically, not by buying into a losing proposition.
Thanks for your comment Paul. Btw, and Wal should note this too, the question I asked was not “Do we need one”. I understand the needs.
The question I asked was “should we have one?” and that means looking at the wider economic picture and I think, in the circumstances, we cannot afford this yet. Not when the council is shelving major capital works that would stimulate the economy and attract private owners to invest, as should be the case.
Ray, I doubt many people would think that I commented in an “adversarial manner”. However you sure as heck responded in one! There’s no need to use phrases like “got it” and “about time…”. Let’s keep things civil.
Anyway, I agree that the issue is important and it’s good to see that you understand that the Bright community needs a pool.
As for “should we have one”…. well, er, yes. If we “need” a pool, then it logically follows that the powers that be (in this case the Alpine Shire Council) are obliged to do all they can to ensure that we do have one. Which is what they are doing.
There’s a rapidly growing number of young families in Bright that would take exception to a push to remove the swimming facility, not to mention the equally fast growing number of seniors that consider access to hydrotherapy a necessity.
Wal, you opened your comment sarcastically that’s why I set you straight. And don’t tell me how to behave on my blog please, you have the reputation for insult and those comments of mine were not “adversarial” they were instructions. Got it?
Anyway, you are still talking in vagueries about this. Yes, yes, yes, in an ideal world we’d have a council-owned swimming pool, but it’s far from ideal and it does not simply follow that because it is “needed” we should “have one”. We’d all like a heated indoor pool in our backyards, Wal, but most of us would say, well that’s an indulgence I can’t afford at the moment.
As for the “growing numbers of families”, well people are moving here and that’s good. But when they moved here they knew it was a small town without everything you could ask for. What’s the problem in going to Wang, Myrtleford or Mt Beauty? It’s not that far.
I’m not suggesting we never have one but, as I said above, it’s probably best to build the economy first and try to attract a private developer/owner. You haven’t addressed anything I’ve said yet.
Maybe Bright council could buy a bus and hire a driver to ship everyone to towns with pools if they want it. Could be cheeper in the long run…
Yes or better still, maybe a private bus operator could start up a bus service. If there are enough people to support a pool in Bright then there are enough to make the bus run viable.
If you live in a town of just 3,000 people you can’t expect an indoor heated pool to be provided for your use.
Um..this prolly doesn’t have anything to do with me, but near where a relo of mine lives on the hill (Olivers Hill) above Frankston in Melbourne, a family has set up a privately owned swimming pool on their premises and made it open to the public. It’s a nice pool and very popular in the area.
I think this is something like what Ray thinks should happen in Bright, and I’d tend to agree.
I used to live in Mt Eliza about 15 years ago, Bertus, and I don’t recall there being anything other than privately owned indoor swimming centres in the area. There was another one in Mornington on Nepean Hwy, which was part of a gym.
I think these things should be privately run and that the users cannot realistically expect everyone else to provide their pastimes and sporting hobbies for them (which makes up a lot of the use).
The previous owner of the Bright Indoor Centre went bankrupt partly because he blew all the income (which included a council subsidy of $100,000 per year) on fast cars and dud property investments but also because the thing is a dud. The owner prior to him went broke too. Then the council rejected an offer from a proposed purchaser wanting a similar deal.
The point is, that it’s pretty obvious this centre is both sub-standard (very sub-standard) and a financial basket case – a real loser of a proposition. And if private industry can’t make a go of it then how do you think the council will go? They’ll lose even more $s because the first thing they’ll do is hire a ‘business manager’ and heaps of other staff.
Nice addition to ‘the empire’ though.
It reminds me of a story from last year, I think, where a local council was asked by the local aboriginals to help support a bbq. The council jumped at the idea and thought that the situation presented presented itself with a few good photo ops.
They donated $5000 to what they thought was the building of a bbq. 3 weeks after the donation was handed over the mayor rang the tribe leader and asked how the building of the bbq was going and if he could bring the local media along for some happy snaps. “Building?” replied the elder “no building here mate, we had the bbq last weekend!”
They bought 5 grands worth of sausages chops steaks and grog with the councils overly zealous ‘look at us aren’t we nice’ attitude.
So, Bright Council, bless your cotton socks, make sure you know who and what is running the pool!!!
Orville,
What was the split between grog and chops? Good story though and I suspect it might have more than a grain of truth in it. Sometimes our bureaucrats can be pretty gullible and as for councilors……………????
Must have been a ripper of a barbeque!
“A public pool where children can learn to swim, year round, is not indulgent but an absolute necessity and the communities’ social responsiblity.”
Paul, I fundamentally disagree with that. It’s the parents’ responsibility to have their children taught to swim not the community’s.
I was living on the Mornington Peninsula in a small community when my kids were taught to swim. There was no local pool so we drove them to a privately owned facillity in Mornington, about half an hour’s drive, much the same as families in Bright would have to do if there were no facility here.
I didn’t mind and it did not once enter my head that the rest of the community where I lived had a “social responsibility” to my kids by providing a facility closer to where I lived.
What is wrong with those families in Bright wanting to teach their kids to swim having to travel to either Mt Beauty, Myrtleford or Wangaratta?
The problem is that the council has never had the guts to tell the very vocal minority of pool users “NO, the council is not obliged to provide you with a pool.” How much money have they wasted already – $500,000 paid to ‘Fast Eddy’, now another $1 million or so on a crap facility that hardly anyone uses. Then there’ll be extra money spent on it, extra staff, etc.
The fact that it’s been on the market for about 9 months and the only offer was from someone who wanted the council to subsidise them to the tune of $1million over ten years should send warning bells to the council about buying into it.
Yes, the council needs to simply say “NO”, once and for all. Then the problem will ‘go away’ or, more correctly, the users will realise they have to go to another town until such time as a private owner finally buys it and upgrades it.
The climate is not right for that at the moment but that shouldn’t be a reason for the council ‘jumping in at the deep end’ with our money.
Alot of posts here state that ‘hardley anyone uses the pool’. Well it presently operates on limited hours, it was closed for a little while, and the facilities need an upgrade. With a new owner (ie council) an upgrade, some advertising, better opening hours, plenty more people would use it. The pool may be small, but its a necessity for kids, the elderly, we cant exactly swim in the river over winter. The existing gym facilities are great, and no not just for “muscle heads” i have seen young mums, older folk, using the gym. Council, I hope you purchase it and make it grand, its a great facility and just needs a spruce up.
“With a new owner (ie council) an upgrade, some advertising, better opening hours, plenty more people would use it.”
Which seems to confirm that not many people really use it or need it.
Is it essential, Mandy?
If it’s used just as much for recreation and personal lifestyle choices (like gym work and those who just ‘enjoy a swim’) then why should it be provided by the council?
Most of the use sounds like private pursuits and you can’t expect others to fund that for you. Why can’t you travel to the other towns?
Ray,
did you attend last nights council meeting?
no doubt you will post the events of the meeting?
No, I didn’t go over to Mt Beauty last night, Andrew. I think my presence (as someone opposed to the idea) mightn’t have been welcome. I don’t know yet how it went but I’d suggest it went through. I’ll try to find out from Ian.